Dr. Steve Perry’s Interview With Teachers of Color Magazine

Dr. Perry is an all-time favorite of TOC’s readers, so we had to make sure his new book, Push Has Come To Shove topped our ‘must read’ list. Of course, we had to talk with “the man” himself….

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Tawan: I guess we’ll just right into it with the first question. Dr. Perry,  while this book examines the ills of the public education system, we know that you offer some type of solutions, so can you give us some examples?

Dr. Perry: There are quite a few solutions. In fact, the entire book is solution orientated. We know what the problems are. The problems are actually being detailed by the system; specifically that teachers and principals are not being held accountable for children’s learning. That’s still the problem. 

Solutions are multiple. One of the most important solutions is school choice. Children shouldn’t have to go to the school closest to their house just because it’s close to their house. This is not 1924 and we shouldn’t have to be guided by provincialism and some of the other “isms”. We need to make sure that our children are put forth first. 

       The fact that our children are being forced to attend schools that fail is evidence of the fact that we need to make the school systems focus more on children, than on the adult. So, that’s another solution. We need to stop being concerned about job creation for the adults and more concerned about our careers for our children. 

Tawan: Right, right. Now, I actually had that question. That was going to be one of the follow-up questions, because one of the things that I know your book speaks to is how this issue is more about adults than students. And I remember watching the movie, I’ve sure you’ve seen it, “Waiting for Superman.” That’s one of the things that I got from the movie; that it was more about adults and less about children. Could you go into more detail about that?

Dr. Perry: I can. Specifically, the way in which the system is designed it ensures that the needs of adults will be met, no matter what. But it doesn’t necessarily ensure the needs of the children will be met; in fact, quite the opposite. The only people who are coming out of the public education with great careers are the people who work in it. So, for instance, the rest of the school day, rest of the school year, all that stuff is employment; how much a teacher works, what the teacher will teach and when. They’re not based on the students. They’re based upon what the adults feel like their needs are. 

Tawan: So, in terms of the way the system is structured now, what is one thing that you would do differently? How would you structure things differently in order to hold adults more accountable, and at the same time, maximize the educational experience for the children?

Dr. Perry: The school year would be longer. The school day would be longer. It would be more aligned with what our children need, as opposed to what the agrarian calendar calls for. 

Tawan: I agree wholeheartedly with you that something needs to be done about school, even though there would be a lot of people in contention with that, particularly the teachers. They look forward to those six or eight weeks off from school; so a very good point.

Dr. Perry: They feel it’s their right, actually. 

Tawan: I know this book is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way, so who ultimately do you feel should be accountable for making these changes?

Dr. Perry: Well, those responsible for making the changes are the parents. We’re the ones who have to make the system work for us. And unfortunately, many parents don’t feel confident enough that they can make that change. So we should be helping them to develop the confidence that they need.

Tawan: You’ve got a lot of parents, particularly in urban areas, who are single parents and they’re working two jobs just to get by. How does a parent like that benefit from reading your book, and also making those actionable steps to really help their child get the best education?

Dr. Perry: They benefit because their greatest retirement plan is their child. 

Tawan: You’re principal of an institution that has a 100% graduation rate and also a 100% rate where students are going to college. As I’ve often said, I’m concerned with accessibility, college completion, and debt reduction, if not elimination altogether. I remember going to a school down here in North Carolina, I was talking to a few principals and one of the things that struck me was that one of the principals told me that only about 30% of their students go off to college.

Why don’t you think more public institutions, K-12 take more assistance from the outside; someone such as myself who’s willing to come in, work with them and try to offer some solutions? What I’ve found is that the college counselors are overwhelmed, and they can’t help every student get off to college. But there’s a system that I have in place that can obviously change some of that. Why do you think they’re either not willing to work with someone on the outside? What is your take on this issue?

Dr. Perry: I’ve seen many educators shutter at the notion that somebody else may do better, and as a result, they do what they have to do. There are a lot of educators whose pride gets in the way, and what they think is, they don’t have to listen to anybody. They get to do what they feel. Unfortunately, we lose access to talent all over the place, in addition to you. It’s many, many people who are out there who could be beneficial to our cause.

Tawan: In many of my conversations with teachers, many of them don’t feel they’re respected in this country, whereas in other countries, they feel like they’re a lot more valued. There’s this issue of finger pointing where the teachers feel like, “The administration doesn’t respect me, the parents don’t respect me.” A lot of teachers out here have very low morale. How would you go about fixing that problem? Would you fix that problem by paying them more?

Dr. Perry: Yes, you pay what you can afford to pay them. Right now, the economy is such that we can’t afford to pay anybody any more. So you can’t pay anymore out of the imaginary hope for money. You’ve got to pay them out of what you have. 

Tawan: Tell me something else about your book, in terms of why is this a book that every teacher, every parent, every student should read?

Dr. Perry: Because I’ve seen success and failure and have insight into what great educators are doing all over the country. This is not about Capital Prep. This is about good schools all over the country and what they’re doing, and effective parents and what they’re doing, and how when you create a compelling academic experience kids perform.

Tawan: I have one last question for you. I guess this question kind of goes without asking, but I’ll ask it anyway. If things are not turned around immediately, where do you see this all headed?

Dr. Perry: We all already see it. America is in a recession in large part, I believe, because we’re in deficit in terms of producing new industries or growing the old ones. People who are thought leaders are the ones who make that happen. Thought leaders also come out of traditional places; high schools. 

Tawan: On behalf of Teachers of Colors magazine, I just want to say we thank you so much for the work that you’re doing. I want to say personally thank you for just being a champion for the underserved and underprivileged, because it takes a lot to stand up to a system that is just so vicious, that continues to replicate itself all over.

Dr. Perry: Well, let me leave you with this. This is a solvable problem and we will win. Make sure everybody understands that we will win. We will win. 

To read book review by Kam Williams, click book image.

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Tawan Perry is the creator of the Connect-5 College Completion Program and a nationally known educator and the award winning author of College Sense: What College and High School Advisors Don’t Tell You about College. Tawan is a leading authority on student leadership and drop out prevention, and is a regular contributor to Teachers of Color magazine.